The North Yorkshire natives Black Rose together
with Diamond Head, Angel Witch, Samson and Grim Reaper were considered as a
next big thing and could really have been bigger than they were. This promising
band has released a bunch of excellent singles and EPs and 3 great albums but
never got that recognition which it deserves. Here is our interview with Chris
Watson, the ex-Black Rose axeman, who is telling the stories about the early
days of the band and reflecting about the reasons why the band hasn’t broken
through.
Tell me please about
you first steps in music. Who influenced you to pick up a guitar? How did you
get your nickname “Wah Wah”?
Well, I was a kid aged 12 in 1974 and my Dad
used to play stuff like Labi Siffre and Lee Hazlewood and Nancy Sinatra, and
everyone had their eye on Elvis Presley and even though this was a little dated
for me, I could hear strong melodies and rhythm pretty much straight off the
bat. I remember “The Leader of the Gang” and “Johnny Remember Me”. So, in clear
sight also of the Beatles and what they were turning into, the UK was the place
to be. If you look closely The Fab 4 were still there but glam was only around
the corner with Mott The Hoople, Bowie, T-Rex… I was at the beginnings of all
these bands; but no guitar yet! Then I distinctly remember going out and buying
“Billion Dollar Babies”, “Changes One” by Bowie and “How Dare You” by 10cc and
I was off. I decided then that I wanted to play guitar but didn’t have one
until my Dad got me one off a mate down the pub. He hid it under the bed for Xmas
and when he went to the pub, I’d get this thing out. He bought the guitar in
August and by Xmas I had learnt about 20 songs. He looked at me to say “Cheeky
Bastard” when he realized I’d been borrowing it. The first person to really
influence me was, and still is, Bill Nelson of Be Bop Deluxe. He was so far off
the chart with melody and lyrics and I still feel Be Bop never sounded like
anyone else. Brilliant. “WahWah” was not something I was called until the
internet took off. In my home town I would reply to “Woto”!
You first band was Bad
Luck and you played with Craig Ellis (Tygers Of Pan Tang) and Bob Henman
(Holland, Hammer). So what are your best memories about that band? Did you play
any original tunes or were they all covers of Judas Priest and whatever?
Aha! My first band was actually called Overload
and consisted of me and Craig Ellis (we grew up in the same street), a guy
called Paul Kilburn who was in a few bands after Overload finished but I can’t
remember who, and Ian Rigby, great player. We had a singer called Philly Renton
and he was a great lad. Sadly he died in a motor accident in about 1982. That
band actually lasted longer than Bad Luck. Our first rehearsal was the day the first
copy of “Kerrang!” with Angus on the front cover. I still have some Overload
pics. Bad Luck set list included Blackfoot’s “Highway Song”, some AC/DC, there
was a UFO song in there. Overload had a great set list including Rush, Blue
Oyster Cult, AC/DC again, The Doobies.
When you joined Black
Rose, they already had some achievements under their belts like a review of
their demo in “Kerrang!” So was it a big deal for you? How did you get this
gig, by the way?
Yes, it was a massive lift for me and I worked
hard writing, playing and doing promo work with the band. I got the gig because
I was in the right place at the right time. I remember a guy called Andy from
Malpractise who told me Black Rose were auditioning but apparently, he was
taking the piss. Anyway, I went along, got the gig and… FUCK YOU Andy! I
remember that day very specifically as we’d only got back from 1982 Donington
Monsters of Rock three hours before the audition and I was half dead. We pretty
much immediately headed into the studio (Guardian) to record “No Point Runnin”,
“Sucker For Your Love” and “Ridin’ Higher”. I was pretty stoked as it was my
first time in a studio, I was only 19 and I was told just go for it. It seemed
to work… These are probably Black Roses’ most familiar songs even if they
didn’t make a ton of money.
Tell me a bit of a
songwriting process in Black Rose. Did you all bring ideas or was it Steve who
was the main songwriter?
Yep, Steve is a great rock writer and he
doesn’t get the credit he deserves. I think this was because of Barton singling
him out for a song called “We’re Gonna Rock You”. For me; never a Kiss fan, it
takes a special kind of stupid to enjoy a similar song by a band you love and
then turn that upside down by having a go at a band trying to write about the
same song style! Anyway, plenty of other critics did like us and for me Dave
Reynolds knew what we were about. Writing wise, I’m too slow and I find it hard
to finish. I remember writing the riffs to “Boys will be Boys”, “Stand Your
Ground”, “Sucker For Your Love”. I did a lot of embellishments on the “Cure…” album,
wrote “Doghouse” from start to finish but Steve is really hard to match both
the input and the amount.
How do you view the
role of Jim Sculley as a manager? Did you stay with him until the end?
I want to be careful here because Jim is a gent
and a good friend to this day. His heart and dedication was plain to see. I
think he was very proud of us as we were very young. But we were also
inexperienced and made some bad decisions. For instance, we should have
capitalized on our popularity in Holland, Germany, Spain. I reckon it would
have given us the push over the hill that we needed. At the same time, in the NWOBHM
scene, we were one of the only bands getting out of Teesside and going to Wales
and Scotland and we did put on a show. I also look at the bands that supported
us (Geddes Axe, Satan, Pretty Maids, early Little Angels)… All went on to
better things but we were stuck… Always seemingly the bridesmaid! I don’t think
the band or Jim could quite fathom how some atrocious bands managed to secure
deals. We got great comments like Johnny Z and Megaforce thought it was a
better album than Heavy Petting and matched earlier Def Leppard for songs.
Atlantic came to see us about 5 times but we just couldn’t get the fish on the
hook!
The first thing you
did with the band was recording the song “No Point Runnin” for the “Roxcalibur”
compilation.
Nearly! At some point we went and recorded “We’re
Gonna Rock You” 4 track EP at Impulse and don’t forget “Red Light Lady”. These
all seemed to have in a 6 month period but I doubt it was that long. Everything
fell into place with hard work and lots of exciting stuff happened from here on
in. If not exciting, then damn fuckin’ funny.
As for the poltergeist. there’s the FULL story
below I swear that it happened.
We were in the control room listening to the
mixes oh what of what would become our first single, “No Point Runnin” and we
desperately wanted to get it right. So there were two leather sofas. I was sat
on one looking at the direction of our manager and the rest of them were
looking at the same direction as me. Everybody is deeply concentrating on
listening for any problems in the mix. Then all of a sudden, my hair, my
extremely long hair was yanked enough to make Barry drop his coffee in his lap.
I had long hair and whatever pulled it wanted it ripped out. The band hadn't
noticed as I was on the end of the row. Barry summoned me outside and said to
say nothing but he did say that there was nothing to see but it had a chunk of
my hair on the floor. I finally told the lads who hadn't seen any of it but I
could tell it wasn't a hoax. We were out of there after about an hour as we had
to get to a radio show to play the single. While I was talking live to the rock
DJ off radio Tees, something weird happened to my face. When I went to see my
doctor, he said I must have received some sort of shock as I had managed to
contract Bells Palsy. One side of my mouth and my eye didn't work properly. I'm
certain that a Jealous little girl ghost was responsible. Never had a repeat or
seen a ghost since but it's sticks with me. It took 3 weeks for the Bell's
palsy to finally clear up. It could have been worse. Anyway that's the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Terry said we must be honoured as he
didn't see them much these days. To be honest I was still a bit unsure about
whether it was a hoax. After all, I hadn't seen anything. But it happened…
By the way, why didn’t
you stick with Guardian Records and went further with Teesbeat?
Guardian was a good experience… Well, the
sleeve (!) was good but the engineering was poor to some extent and Teesbeat
was a good friend and we though by him doing with him, we’d get him some good
coverage which worked. But I don’t think Dimmer was looking to be a label owner
and we were looking for a major label like Atlantic. We just felt a label could
get us sounding like Def Leppard who cannot be called NWOBHM in ANY shape or
form. Classic rock from the beginning.
Tell me please
everything you can recall from your TV appearance and the making of “No Point
Runnin” video. Did you like that experience? Were the people from TV friendly
and supportive?
It was another great experience. Something new,
it was all positive…and no, no-one got jiggy with the dancer.
What are your favorite
memories about live shows from 1982—1983? Did you play in support of any big
acts?
Let’s see… We had support from Geddes Axe,
Satan, Pretty Maids, Skitzofrenik. There probably a few more but these were
home gigs where most of the time we’d put local bands on to keep it North East.
We supported Raven, Limelight, White Spirit, Vardis. I’d say Raven were
probably the most fun to watch. That was like AC/DC having TWO Angus’s on stage
at the same time!
There is a review of
your show in the Marquee Club where you supported Thunderstick and it says that
there weren’t a lot of people. Do you remember that gig? Would you say that
playing in London always was tough?
Yeah, London is London. If I remember rightly
someone had pulled out and it was offered to us very late in the day but the
review by Dave D was good and it started to generate interest which is why you
make that 500 mile round trip… Trying to wake up the press that there was good
metal and rock to be had in all areas of the UK.
One of the well known
places where you played was Dynamo Club in Holland. Any special memories or
stories about that trip?
Unbelievable place. The story of getting there
should be made into a film. I think the trip showed how naïve we were. For
instance, we got there at 7.00 am in the morning VERY hangover and made our way
to the gig and fell asleep throwing up in between. Anyway, in the dressing
room, there was one of those glass fronted freezers you see in shops, full to
the brim of beer. I waited all day to BUY a beer and they said “It’s the rider”!
We knew what one was but we’d had one about 3 times in as many years! We drank
them dry and took home what we couldn’t drink. I also remember being told we
were doing an interview and the guy with us said no, it’s a press conference? I
thought maybe WW3 was starting and he was going to change his speech from
Vardis to World War. There were about 4 reporters there from “AardShok” and
other mags. We were simply knocked out by the interest but as I said, we were a
small time band trying to be a small time band (or so it seemed). I reckon
working in Europe would have broke us. My main picture in my head is doing 5
encores… all the same, Iron Maiden’s track Iron Maiden… 5 times!
What was the story
with Vardis? I heard you and Steve Zodiac didn’t get along.
I doubt Steve Zodiac knew anything about it.
Basically throwing a moody after a knackering journey to the Isle of Wight to
support them. We waited from 9.00 am to 6.55 for a soundcheck and got that 5
mins as they opened the doors. 700 mile trip for a 30 minutes gig. I mean come
on, can it take a 3 piece boogie band 10 hours to mic and mix a guitar, bass
and drums? They just played that shitty game where if you can stop the (quite
promising) support band from sounding good, well that’s great.
Do you remember any of
your roadies? Tell me about touring routine with Black Rose. Did you have your
own bus? What are your favorite stories from touring and traveling?
Yeah, I still keep in touch with Butty, Andy,
Dave and John, they are mates through thick and thin. We had two coaches over a
3 year period. First one we bought from White Spirit but that wasn’t really big
enough so we bought a full 71 seat coach that had the back customized for a stockcar. Two years later it was crushed into a cube
because Jim Sculley did something re the insurance so it had to go.
The band recorded a
demo in 1983 with the songs “Knocked Out”,
“Red Light Lady”, “Love On the Line” and “Dead
And Buried”. What was the purpose for that? Was it a kind of a showcase demo
for Bullet Records? Why didn’t you use the last two of them anywhere?
Er, “Love on the Line” and “Dead and Buried”
were on the “We’re Gonna Rock You” 4 track EP weren’t they? I forget but I
think that’s the case and then “Red Light Lady” went on “One Take No Dubs”.
NOTE: here we have
some confusion as the band was represented on “One
Take No Dubs” with the song “Knocked Out”, and the EP definitely hadn’t “Love on the Line” or “Dead and Buried”.
Finally we are in 1984
and the band is Impulse Studios with Keith Nichol behind the desk. How was it
to work with the man? Were you satisfied with the production?
It was ok; they were nice guys but the album
sounds really toppy and some of the songs were getting a bit tired. The idea
was to keep writing and getting better at it. Malla Smith and Mick Thompson
were the best rhythm section in the area in my opinion but it was hard
sometimes to be as good as they were. But waiting for a major was like growing
old so eventually “Boys Will Be Boys” was released and maybe we shouldn’t have
been so impatient.
The album came out
with very simple cover. Why was that? Did you try to talk your label into
putting some money into a better one?
The cover was actually our idea. I seem to
recall a Michael Jackson cover that had the same style. At the same time it had
all the lyrics and photos so it wasn’t just that. TURN IT OVER!
Why did you quit after
the release of the album? Were you disappointed that the band didn’t sign with
a major label after the album?
Utterly disappointed. Also, the writing wasn’t
really happening. So I go off for a few months and the band started with Ian
Iredale. Really good player but he just disappeared. The lads asked me if I’d
come back and played me the new stuff for the “Nightmare” EP and I was floored.
All the songs had moved up a notch and were great to play. Thought that EP
should again have gone better than it did but not for want of trying. I stayed
because I saw the potential.
How did that happen
that you rejoined the band briefly and why did you quit for the second time?
See above for first answer. Second, I was just
getting really jaded and my Mum who lives in London said why not come down and give
it a go. So I did.
How do you view the
“Nightmare” EP and the second album “Walk It Like You Talk It”?
Loved the “Nightmare” EP. Not so enamored about
“Walk it…” I think we’d started to sound like Bon Jovi, then we would hear
Y&T and again, we started to sound like whatever was big. I think in the
US, thrash had gone real speedy but back then, it was rock or metal. Then
people like Venom came out with a sort of corrupted Motorhead style, the
thrashers discovered speed and now you have 48 different styles of emo and
NWOBHM looks a long way away but still sounds like early Maiden or whatever.
What do you think about the tendency to drift
to a more commercial direction which was popular among British bands including
Iron Maiden and Judas Priest? Was it a natural progression for heavy music at
the time or was it a matter of financial survival?
I suppose
certain era’s have things that end up historic. I mean the loss of so many
amazing musicians last year and I thought, I was telling people for about 5 years
that all my influences are nearing the end of their bands…Rush for example have
announced retirement as Neil Peart is struggling and they want to go out on a
high whereas I think AC/DC have pissed a lot of people off (including me). They
could have been a bit classier about it. Some bands like Metallica for instance
have looked bored stiff in the studio and after handing The Black album in for
Rob Rock to make a great album and it’s taken them an age to do something
memorable beyond that though I am hearing great things of the new album.
Tell me about your projects after the departure
from Black Rose.
I never
really got into another band quite like Black Rose. When I moved down south,
having been unemployed for years, I took the time out to find a job.
Unfortunately, having taking the time out I forgot to put it back in! I formed
a band called Jonesville which was part covers and part original. Our other
guitarist was called Nik Chuturillo from Croatia where he had been in a band
that when translated from Yugoslavian to
English to Fish Soup. Great player exiled from Yugoslavia during the dreadful
wars. I did some demos for the guy who sings in Pink Cream 69 and I was in 2
tribute bands; Alike Cooper and Unchained VH tribute. Ritchie is now with Judas
Priest and our bass player Davey is with Uriah Heep… Nice work if you can get
it.
Some sources claim that Black Rose reunited in
2003. Is it really the case?
I think
they may have considered but I think it took so long it could have been what
turned into “Cure…”.
Tell me about the
recording of the album “Cure For The Disease”. I know that Malla Smith and Ian
Iredale were involved in the making of it. Did you like that experience of
recoding your parts on your own?
I loved doing the album which is why it pisses
me off when I see other bands regurgitating more lost demo’s and unreleased
tracks. There’s usually a reason things go unreleased and that is they’re not
very good. Think the Thin Lizzy song “Dedication” where Phil Lynott’s voice is
out. Should have just left it as it was, in my opinion.
The album sounds in
the vein of American rock bands of the 80’s. Who came up with this idea? Do you
think it stood the test of time?
We never did that… We just said, let’s write. So I was conscious to do the very best I could
and I spent hours writing twin harmonies and solo’s that rocked. Mainly because
my guitar chops are going and I felt if I didn’t get this down, I would have
nothing to show for 40 years of rocking. I also did the solo album at the same
time for the same reason.
Was it right decision
to put the album out only in digital form at first? Did you get any offers from
labels?
I don’t really know. It’s Steve’s domain. He
asked me initially about joining the band but I live 250 miles away so it was
never gonna happen. At the time, I was doing really well with my teaching.
By the way, did you
play any shows with the band after the reunion? Did you have any intention to
bring the band back to the live circuit?
Well, maybe I should take the “Cure For Your
Disease” album out under the name BR2!
Tell me
about your present life. Don’t you want to form a band or at least a studio
project, something like NWOBHM All-Stars or something?
Well… My present life is very painful, I can’t
move my hands, I sleep 14 hours a day and I’m getting worse. Think Pat Torpey
and Glen Tipton and you are there. My guitar career will finish when my brain
tells it to and there’s no getting away from it. I find it upsetting but there
you go…
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